Curse

tasha · Jul 29, 2009, 10:06 AM // 10:06

I disagree that a guild that the OP is looking for exists, but yes finding the right Guild is hard. Part of this is because people looking for Guilds often don't know what they're looking for, and also because its pretty hard to sum up the nature of a Guild in a block of text that people won't get bored reading. But yes, those guilds do exist. Post a Looking for Guild message on Guru.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Also, I'd like to know what exactly "highend PvE guild" means. Does that mean 'hardcore?' As in: guild has voice comm, most players are on many hours a day, frequently doing SC's, dungeons, and elite areas? Or, does it just mean a guild that is of a medium to large size, active, and plays often in high end PvE?

This is something I often wonder about when trying advertise or when approaching people looking for a guild. Is regular HM missions, vanquishes, dungeons enough to count as High End? Or is that title only reserved for those that clear out UW, Fow, DoA, the Deep and Urgoz 3 times a night?

In all honesty I think that the term means different things to different people and just saying "lf high end pve" is going to get you in a number of "wrong" guilds. If you're looking, ask questions about Guilds you're interested in, make sure you know what you want and that what they're saying matches what you want quite closely. There's always the option to make your own if you really can't find what you want, but its never an easy thing to do.

Spiritweaver · Jul 29, 2009, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tasha_darke

I disagree that a guild that the OP is looking for exists, but yes finding the right Guild is hard. Part of this is because people looking for Guilds often don't know what they're looking for, and also because its pretty hard to sum up the nature of a Guild in a block of text that people won't get bored reading. But yes, those guilds do exist. Post a Looking for Guild message on Guru.

Personally, especially when looking for European guilds, using Guru isn't as great a tool as you think it is. Nowadays you won't even see that many European guilds advertise on Guru anymore except some of the ones that generally have diminishing player bases, whether due to inactivity, or lack of commitment by players, officers, and leaders to do stuff.

No one is saying the European high end guilds don't exist, only that there seems to be a small number of the good ones in existance due to most high end PvE guilds going with more international playerbases.

Quote:

This is something I often wonder about when trying advertise or when approaching people looking for a guild. Is regular HM missions, vanquishes, dungeons enough to count as High End? Or is that title only reserved for those that clear out UW, Fow, DoA, the Deep and Urgoz 3 times a night?

I'd say all of the above. Mainly those guilds who commit more on the high end stuff than NM play. High end to me is generally where I've completed all the campaigns, elite areas, dungeons, etc, once and now want to have a crack at them on a harder difficulty. You can find any guild that might do HM stuff but finding one that's actually committed to it and actually half decent at it can be an entirely different story altogether. I think it does depend on the level the player wants out of the guild also.

Quote:

In all honesty I think that the term means different things to different people and just saying "lf high end pve" is going to get you in a number of "wrong" guilds. If you're looking, ask questions about Guilds you're interested in, make sure you know what you want and that what they're saying matches what you want quite closely.

You're right. I generally avoid guilds that advertise they do "insert elite area, dungeons here" then just allow anyone who asks for an invite into their guild without even asking a few questions about what they can do, etc.

Quote:

There's always the option to make your own if you really can't find what you want, but its never an easy thing to do.

At this point in the Guild Wars lifespan it's probably alot harder than people realize. Recruiting nowadays, especially European players is a massive pain in the ass due to most European players being assimilated into US/International guilds

AmbientMelody · Jul 29, 2009, 10:42 AM // 10:42

I would say Europe in general went into 'underground' i.e. less and less international guilds and more and more nation-oriented small (15-20 people) professional guilds, centred mainly around friends of friends who know friends etc. if you get what I mean. There are not many 'laid-back' and 'pve-oriented' guilds who do really anything besides chit-chatting and occasional AB with member count over 50 if you ask me (and that's again my own experience).

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jul 29, 2009, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonii

PvE and PvP are largely different parts of the game. It's very possible, especially at this point in GW's lifetime, that the vast majority of guilds would be PvP based after beating campaigns and such, and/or that the PvE guilds have enough members to meet their goals and aren't actively recruiting.

The PvP ladders only show that the European guilds tend to do better in PvP. It's not an accurate way of showing the number of PvE guilds or total European guilds in general.

I'm American, so I'm going to take the OP's word on the fact that he/she can't find what he's/she's looking for. All I can argue is that the PvP ladder isn't a helpful tool in finding a PvE guild.

Well what I was getting at was the simple fact that there are a vast majority more PvE players than PvP players. I don't think anyone will dispute that.

Now, here's how I see it. Let's say 75% of the players are PvE'ers and 25% are PvP'ers (Not exact figures but all that matters is that there is more PvE than PvP), if we have a large population of players then it's safe to assume there will be more of both PvE'ers and PvP'ers but the ratio of PvE:PvP will stay ROUGHLY the same.

So using the logic it's pretty safe to assume that if we have a large amount of PvP'ers dominating in a certain area, then extrapolating backwards on our previous ratio, it would be reasonably safe to say that there is more PvE'ers also in this region.

In our case, the majority of the Guild Wars ladder is european, by quite a long shot, so using the logic that there is more PvE'ers than PvP'ers, I would say that there is also more PvE'ers in Europe than in America.

I do realise there are other factors to consider, Europeans may be more competitive, they may simply be better players or some other wierd factors but I think the overwhelming amount of European guilds on the ladder compared to american would suggest to me it's a much bigger factor, something like population.

Now unless your guild is extremely big, it will be hard to get very noticed in the PvE community, so I find it very, very hard to believe that there are no big European guilds out there, they're just not so big that they are noticed. I think you just have to look a bit more.

tasha · Jul 29, 2009, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritweaver

Personally, especially when looking for European guilds, using Guru isn't as great a tool as you think it is. Nowadays you won't even see that many European guilds advertise on Guru anymore except some of the ones that generally have diminishing player bases, whether due to inactivity, or lack of commitment by players, officers, and leaders to do stuff.

As someone who's on the running side and not on the looking side of the divide I'll tentatively agree. I don't often look at what other Guilds are doing in terms of recruitment, but I have noticed the trend of diminishing player bases both in the quantity of guilds recruiting and the activity in our guild and alliance. I could get into a debate about why etc but thats really a subject for another thread or private PM. Problem is, how do you reach people outside the game other than using fan forums, of which Guru arguably gets the most traffic. Please, if you know another way, let me know.

(I'll get it in the open here that I am NOT advertising my Guild as a suitable candidate for a high end Guild. Yes we're primarily Euro and we do the "high end" content, but we're far too unorganised to constitute advertising ourselves as a high end guild. People just do and organise stuff as they want to - works for us, not for many people)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritweaver

You're right. I generally avoid guilds that advertise they do "insert elite area, dungeons here" then just allow anyone who asks for an invite into their guild without even asking a few questions about what they can do, etc.

I've also found that making people post applications on a forum helps weed out the less committed. By the time they've registered, read some more detailed description of what to expect and filled in a short form, they're usually pretty sure if they're interested or not. As long as the guild in question represents themselves accurately its usually a good start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritweaver

At this point in the Guild Wars lifespan it's probably alot harder than people realize. Recruiting nowadays, especially European players is a massive pain in the ass due to most European players being assimilated into US/International guilds

Yup totally agree with you there.

Spiritweaver · Jul 29, 2009, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

Well what I was getting at was the simple fact that there are a vast majority more PvE players than PvP players. I don't think anyone will dispute that.

Nope. However just because there are more good European guilds in PvP that doesn't nessecarily hold true to PvE.

Quote:

Now, here's how I see it. Let's say 75% of the players are PvE'ers and 25% are PvP'ers (Not exact figures but all that matters is that there is more PvE than PvP), if we have a large population of players then it's safe to assume there will be more of both PvE'ers and PvP'ers but the ratio of PvE:PvP will stay ROUGHLY the same.

So using the logic it's pretty safe to assume that if we have a large amount of PvP'ers dominating in a certain area, then extrapolating backwards on our previous ratio, it would be reasonably safe to say that there is more PvE'ers also in this region.

In our case, the majority of the Guild Wars ladder is european, by quite a long shot, so using the logic that there is more PvE'ers than PvP'ers, I would say that there is also more PvE'ers in Europe than in America.

I do realise there are other factors to consider, Europeans may be more competitive, they may simply be better players or some other wierd factors but I think the overwhelming amount of European guilds on the ladder compared to american would suggest to me it's a much bigger factor, something like population.

It's pretty safe to assume that there are probably more American players playing this game than Europeans, why do you think a majority of the European playerbase play/reside on the US servers nowadays and not vice versa?

Now bare in mind there is also language barriers to break down in the European communitiy to consider. You'll find a good percentage of European guilds may be Dutch, German, etc and generally they stick together which forms a kind of segregation.

Also let's think about high level GvG for a second. Most teams will stick to one region where they can, because it makes it easier for them to plan, play etc. It doesn't really work like that in PvE because there is no competition in PvE. People can play as and when they choose and do stuff at will. This is not to say that some GvG guilds are not internationally based, but you can see my point when it comes down to core teams.

The problem here, and the main point I'm trying to make, is that you are trying to use maths based off a PvP ladder to garner rough estimates on PvE and there's way too many factors to consider for the player to even be able to do that with any relative accuracy.

Quote:

Now unless your guild is extremely big, it will be hard to get very noticed in the PvE community, so I find it very, very hard to believe that there are no big European guilds out there, they're just not so big that they are noticed. I think you just have to look a bit more.

No one is saying there aren't any, what we're saying is that there is a severe lack of "good" European high end PvE guilds nowadays. The few really good notable guilds are pretty much dead now or have merged into more international guilds instead.

You could probably name several good European PvE guilds off the top of your head for PvP (assuming you follow it) but can you say the same about European high end PvE guilds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tasha_darke

As someone who's on the running side and not on the looking side of the divide I'll tentatively agree. I don't often look at what other Guilds are doing in terms of recruitment, but I have noticed the trend of diminishing player bases both in the quantity of guilds recruiting and the activity in our guild and alliance. I could get into a debate about why etc but thats really a subject for another thread or private PM. Problem is, how do you reach people outside the game other than using fan forums, of which Guru arguably gets the most traffic. Please, if you know another way, let me know.

This is a big problem. If you rely solely on Guru you won't get anywhere, but if you just openly recruit in Kamadan etc you run the risk of recruiting the wrong types into your guild.

I have always found the really good guilds have been born out of small groups of friends who have wanted to grow their core groups.

Quote:

(I'll get it in the open here that I am NOT advertising my Guild as a suitable candidate for a high end Guild. Yes we're primarily Euro and we do the "high end" content, but we're far too unorganised to constitute advertising ourselves as a high end guild. People just do and organise stuff as they want to - works for us, not for many people)

People could do alot worse than MYST.

Solas · Jul 29, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

I've been in a few US guilds even though I'm GMT
It caused probelms sometimes ( as in when I converted the times wrong and it turns out they activly GvG at 4am i nthe morning my time-.-)

But the High end PvE ones I was were pretty good, Joined with an American freind and it worked well. The leader and officers left to persue pvp though, left soon after that.

BTw silly question but are you sure your asking guilds in the Euro districts and not the US?
made a similair mistake when I returned fro ma long break.

pamelf · Jul 29, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Think you have it tough as a European? Try being from the Asia Pacific region; especially Australia and New Zealand.

Spiritweaver · Jul 29, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Think you have it tough as a European? Try being from the Asia Pacific region; especially Australia and New Zealand.

I can agree with this though it doesn't make the European issue any easier.

dunky_g · Jul 29, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

My guild is full of european people. the only people we have outside the EU is 2 aussie members, 1 aussie officer and the leader is aussie!

rest of us are from europe so were all on at the same times.

it just takes time to find the right guild for you.

Fluffiliscious · Jul 29, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

I'm in the US and had exactly the opposite problem. All of the guilds that I could find who were high end PVE were in the UK.

Spiritweaver · Jul 29, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffiliscious

I'm in the US and had exactly the opposite problem. All of the guilds that I could find who were high end PVE were in the UK.

Who were they?

own age myname · Jul 29, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Probably about 50% of the guilds I've been in are Euro. Actually, the longest guild I was ever in was Euro. They weren't hardcore, but they were fun to play with.

It was TIGE alliance, I'm pretty sure it's still around. It was Guild of the Week (or month? I forget) a long time ago.

Devastating Flames · Jul 29, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

most the guilds that are good have to cater to many different wants and needs they cant focus on one persons remember ur 1 in 100 in that guild. and theirs lots of euro guilds and alot of good euro players

Nereyda Shoaal · Jul 29, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jecht Scye

I'm an American in a guild almost completely composed of Europeans.

I'm the total opposite. European in US guild
Sometimes I'm the only person online in the 50+ active members guild. It changed few weeks ago - holidays etc. More than half of the people don't know me and vice versa
That's why are alliances... you can build one to cover all timezones. It's not impossible, my previous alliance had that

Sniper22 · Jul 30, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Anyway, seriously post on the forums to find a guild. And the top 1000 guilds are on the ladder. You need a rating of 998 to be on ladder, you start out with 1000 and will get a rank after you do one gvg match. The ladder does not show that euros are more focused at high end pvp or better at it, it just shows the majority of guilds.

pumpkin pie · Jul 30, 2009, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmyhld

atleast, thats what i think. whenever i see a cool guild i would be interested joining, i get the same answer if i ask them where the guildies are mostly from; USA.

now that doesnt matter much to me, but it would mean that if i want to play with the guys, id have to stay up till like 3-4 am. which i cant do cause i have a job etc.

ive been looking for a well established, EU based highend pve guild, but it seems that theyre just not there. or atleast, they dont have recruitment posts.

i would like to hear fellow europeans about this matter, and offcourse everyones elses input is welcome too

try ULGG and their alliances.

fenix · Jul 30, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

try ULGG and their alliances.

That's the worst advice I've heard on guru. That's like telling him to uninstall Guild Wars and kill himself, because he'd be doing something virtually as useful if he joined ULGG.

Fril Estelin · Jul 30, 2009, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

That's the worst advice I've heard on guru. That's like telling him to uninstall Guild Wars and kill himself, because he'd be doing something virtually as useful if he joined ULGG.

Hence the smiley...

glacialphoenix · Jul 30, 2009, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Think you have it tough as a European? Try being from the Asia Pacific region; especially Australia and New Zealand.

*seconded, although I'm from neither. Trades are hellish, I usually end up PMing the person with "drop me a trade time please, I'm in GMT+8!"

OP: Seriously, I sympathise; if you've got friends around who play the game it might be better to stick with them if you really can't find a guild.

In either case, good luck.